Ezran's post is view-locked to "login only" on Pillowfort.
My relevant comments:
(Well, the post does include 'transmascs', but there seems to be a focus on trans men. It doesn't take away from the proposal of transandrophobia, but some of the examples overlap with enby experiences of those who were afab without masculinity actually being involved. I'm not sure if that makes sense, tbh, because I have the feeling I'm misinterpreting who all is being included under 'transmasc'. I got used to it being an opt-in thing in certain nonbinary discussions instead of applying to every trans person who was afab.)
[...] I can see these discussions being tagged with transphobia and whatever term is being used specifically for this experience, but I guess the explanation for the term might spread the issues being discussed? Make it easier to tag/search? Idk. I'm not opposed to a specific term for what Grey's trying to get at, and I can understand trying to move away from transmisandry because I don't remember any discussions getting further than 'misandry doesn't exist', but I feel like my opinion isn't going to carry much weight, really. (I would probably remember to use transphobia, cissexism, and cisnormativity for my experiences before I'd remember a new, recently encountered word.)
Quote: There does seem to be some... slippage... here... between "trans man," "transmasc," and "person who is not a cis woman and was assigned female at birth."
It's entirely possible that I'm misremembering, but I thought there was some pushback against transmasc(uline) being used to refer to any trans person who was afab, and I thought that was how transmasc, -femme, and -neutral started to get reblogged on tumblr, which might have been where the opt-in impression came from. Except that certain medical transition related info posts still got broadly split into transmasc/transfemme regardless of personal identification and/or use of either of those terms. Or maybe I'm just unnecessarily complicating this....
~
[...] I meant that (to me, at least) there seemed to be two usages of transmasculine. One was the opt-in that I saw more from certain nonbinary tumblr users where there wasn't as much of a focus on medical transitioning. If I remember correctly, this was more about presentation and how (un)comfortable with gendered language one might be.
The other usage seemed to come from resource oriented blogs/blogging habits and might have been a holdover from older, binary focused tagging where there was only trans masc/femme categorization. In this sense, some nonbinary folks who didn't necessarily identify with being trans masculine sorta got lumped in to a situational trans masculine label based on resource access?
Quote: Does transneutral not mean a trans person who is non-binary and doesn’t plan on medically transitioning?
I can't say that this isn't how it gets used by some on tumblr, but I went looking for a definition to try to figure out if I've been crossing terminology streams or something because I wasn't aware of transneutral signifying anything about medical transitioning. According to this wiki page, transneutral is a gender identity in which one "identifies with neutral gendered feelings more than other gendered feelings"; it can include stellarians, unaligned and/or abinary folks, neutrois people, and overlap with other identities (genderfluid, aporagender, maverique, possibly agender, etc.).
This tumblr post notes that transneutral people "usually are nonbinary but could be trans men or trans women" who identify with neutral gendered feelings to a greater extent than masculinity or femininity. Also on tumblr: Seemingly dozens of flags, a reminder about transneutral not being 'neutral on trans discourse', a comic about personal medical transition goals, and [broken link - another post] about medical transition goals. I think I stand corrected? Apparently, if you scroll back beyond all the flag/moodboard edits, you can run into this:
They typically refer to your transition ‘goal’. So someone who wants to transition to a masculine place would use transmasculine, someone who wants to transition to a feminine place would use transfeminine, and someone who wants to transition to a neutral place could use transneutral!
Not to mix comments on posts, but this might have been easier if personal narratives could add to and expand the understanding of the definition repeated everywhere. Just talking about internal stuff doesn't automatically bring along anything about presentation or transition goals.
~
[...] I didn't realize until I went to look this up that I wasn't quite using transneutral how others appear to use it, and it might just depend on what site and community one pokes around in. (Maybe a place where people couldn't and/or didn't want to take physical or medical transition steps built up non-transitioning meaning?? Idk.)
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: Tuesday, 19 December 2023 07:44 am (UTC)My relevant comments:
(Well, the post does include 'transmascs', but there seems to be a focus on trans men. It doesn't take away from the proposal of transandrophobia, but some of the examples overlap with enby experiences of those who were afab without masculinity actually being involved. I'm not sure if that makes sense, tbh, because I have the feeling I'm misinterpreting who all is being included under 'transmasc'. I got used to it being an opt-in thing in certain nonbinary discussions instead of applying to every trans person who was afab.)
[...] I can see these discussions being tagged with transphobia and whatever term is being used specifically for this experience, but I guess the explanation for the term might spread the issues being discussed? Make it easier to tag/search? Idk. I'm not opposed to a specific term for what Grey's trying to get at, and I can understand trying to move away from transmisandry because I don't remember any discussions getting further than 'misandry doesn't exist', but I feel like my opinion isn't going to carry much weight, really. (I would probably remember to use transphobia, cissexism, and cisnormativity for my experiences before I'd remember a new, recently encountered word.)
The post about transandrophobia that prompted this discussion. The rest is pretty much the offshoot discussion of transneutral.
Quote: There does seem to be some... slippage... here... between "trans man," "transmasc," and "person who is not a cis woman and was assigned female at birth."
It's entirely possible that I'm misremembering, but I thought there was some pushback against transmasc(uline) being used to refer to any trans person who was afab, and I thought that was how transmasc, -femme, and -neutral started to get reblogged on tumblr, which might have been where the opt-in impression came from. Except that certain medical transition related info posts still got broadly split into transmasc/transfemme regardless of personal identification and/or use of either of those terms. Or maybe I'm just unnecessarily complicating this....
~
[...] I meant that (to me, at least) there seemed to be two usages of transmasculine. One was the opt-in that I saw more from certain nonbinary tumblr users where there wasn't as much of a focus on medical transitioning. If I remember correctly, this was more about presentation and how (un)comfortable with gendered language one might be.
The other usage seemed to come from resource oriented blogs/blogging habits and might have been a holdover from older, binary focused tagging where there was only trans masc/femme categorization. In this sense, some nonbinary folks who didn't necessarily identify with being trans masculine sorta got lumped in to a situational trans masculine label based on resource access?
Quote: Does transneutral not mean a trans person who is non-binary and doesn’t plan on medically transitioning?
I can't say that this isn't how it gets used by some on tumblr, but I went looking for a definition to try to figure out if I've been crossing terminology streams or something because I wasn't aware of transneutral signifying anything about medical transitioning. According to this wiki page, transneutral is a gender identity in which one "identifies with neutral gendered feelings more than other gendered feelings"; it can include stellarians, unaligned and/or abinary folks, neutrois people, and overlap with other identities (genderfluid, aporagender, maverique, possibly agender, etc.).
This tumblr post notes that transneutral people "usually are nonbinary but could be trans men or trans women" who identify with neutral gendered feelings to a greater extent than masculinity or femininity. Also on tumblr: Seemingly dozens of flags, a reminder about transneutral not being 'neutral on trans discourse', a comic about personal medical transition goals, and [broken link - another post] about medical transition goals. I think I stand corrected? Apparently, if you scroll back beyond all the flag/moodboard edits, you can run into this:
Not to mix comments on posts, but this might have been easier if personal narratives could add to and expand the understanding of the definition repeated everywhere. Just talking about internal stuff doesn't automatically bring along anything about presentation or transition goals.
~
[...] I didn't realize until I went to look this up that I wasn't quite using transneutral how others appear to use it, and it might just depend on what site and community one pokes around in. (Maybe a place where people couldn't and/or didn't want to take physical or medical transition steps built up non-transitioning meaning?? Idk.)